Disclaimer: There are many views on the following topic…do yourself the favor and read the entire post IT IS LONG…the subject at hand, to some, is an emotional issue and I recognize that, however I am attempting to write from my theological perspective.
It has been a week since the fellowship of which I am credentialed with had their General Conference (#PAOC14). The major issue to be voted on at this year’s conference was regarding the consumption of alcohol for its credential holders. I would have loved to say that the major issue of ‘discussion’ was regarding the consumption of alcohol for its credential holders, but that wasn't the case.
My fellowship was birthed out of the Azusa Street revival back in 1906-1915. From there the revival swept the world and its legacy today is an estimated 500 million Pentecostal/charismatic believers around the world today. Now my fellowship (Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada) has had a history of abstinence. I remember growing up hearing the stories of people who were “saved from drinking” or “saved from dancing” and it appears that the church culture defined what certain elements were sinful. The home in which I grew up in was one of abstinence as both of my parents had family members with serious alcohol issues. So much so, I remember my parents getting a bottle of wine for a gift and I watched my mother pour it down the kitchen sink so that no one would taste it! Yet, on the other hand, my wife’s family (which was Pentecostal as well) had no issue with alcohol as they kept it in their home and occasionally indulged themselves.
This brings us to the topic of the blog. The item of for amendment was a line in the constitution that simply stated that “the non-medical use of mood altering substances” was listed under a moral failure.
Now, let’s be honest the wording of “Mood altering substances” is very vague and can be easily danced around if need be. So there was a call to clarify the stance of my fellowship on the issue of alcohol. What was interesting is that there is no longer an historical view being held to regarding alcohol but rather a diverse opinion on the issue.
As my friend Paul Walker on his blog explained “The General Executive attempted to clarify those areas that are moral absolutes and those that are corporate convictions. The placement of “the non-medical use of mood altering substances” in the category of “moral failure” as it currently reads was not viewed as helpful to the fellowship. It was with this background that the following resolution was presented under the category of disciplinary action:
10.6.2.2.3 The use of tobacco and the non medical use of alcohol or other mood altering substances.
The resolution sought to indicate that it is drunkenness that infringes on the biblical absolute whereas drinking alcohol as a credential holder infringes on our historic corporate conviction of abstinence.”
The fact that was revealed at this conference is that the corporate conviction of credential holders is not unanimous on the issue of alcohol. It was obvious at the conference that there was a significant percentage of credential holders that would advocate for moderationist view on the issue of alcohol.
Most Christians hold one of 3 common views of alcohol:
1. Prohibitionist: The Bible teaches that alcohol consumption is totally forbidden by scripture.
2. Abstentionist: Although the Bible does not expressly forbid the drinking of alcoholic beverages, the consumption of alcohol in our society is reckless and should not be condoned.
3. Moderationist: Alcohol is permitted for Christians as long as consumed in moderation and in a careful manner.
It is critical for us to consider our stance as many people already see Christians as more about what they are against than what they are for. As I talk to people outside the church this is often their view of Christians and churches. Therefore churches that functionally disallow alcohol, dancing etc. are the churches these non-believers and/or people raised in churches are trying to avoid.
I found that this is an issue that separates church leaders with a historical mindset vs a today’s worldview. Why is this important? People with a historical mentality are able to separate out alcohol from their beliefs, while todays generation see things less compartmentalized and seek holistic views and thus alcohol becomes a significant gospel issue.
With that said, I was troubled at our conference when the issue was being discussed and two of the PAOC’s scholars got up and challenged the amendment, as written, as there was no scriptural basis and the one chosen to support the amendment was used out of context. To my surprise and horror the majority of the conference delegation refused to heed the advise of our scholars and voted their suggestions down. This proved to me that it was not about theology but rather emotion and history. The next day one of our General Executive members announced from the platform “Our theology matters!” Yes, Yes it does, and it should matter in this area as well. Thus my need to post…
Many people feel that it is just wrong for believers to drink, others feel it is ok for people to drink as long as they don’t get drunk and others are just not sure. Again, it comes down to what do you believe and why do you believe it? We need to own our faith. We all need to be students of the scriptures. It is not good enough to say my pastor said it, and that is good enough for me. People, know what you believe and why you believe it and do your best to back it up by scripture.
.Romans 14 5-8 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
We are called to know what we believe and why we believe it. Our culture is based on extremes. There are those who are Legalists who put everything they believe in a closed hand and nothing is open to discussion, but on the other hand Liberals hold everything in the open hand and everything is questionable and up to debate. However, I believe that there are some things in our faith that are not open to debate: Things like the virgin birth and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, just to name a few. But there are other issues that people can lean on either side of the fence. We must wrestle with theology and figure out what we hold tightly onto and what we will leave open to debate.
Paul writes in Romans 14:13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
Throughout the first 1,800 years of church history, Christians consumed alcoholic beverages as a common part of everyday life and nearly always used wine in the Lord's Supper. It was believed that both the Bible and Christian tradition taught that alcohol is a gift from God that makes life more joyous and that overindulgence, which leads to drunkenness, is a sin. In the mid 1800s, some Protestant Christians moved from this historic position of allowing moderate use of alcohol to deciding that having alcohol around was not the wisest thing to do. Eventually some would prohibit all and any consumption of alcohol because it was believed to be a sin. Today, all three of these positions exist in Christianity, but the historic position remains the most common worldwide.
I grew up in a holiness culture and my fellowship would consider itself a holiness movement. For the most part the holiness cultural view on alcohol was that it is something that you did not touch and that you would not even entertain the thought. The holiness culture feels that the use of alcohol was sinful because of what it leads to: That being alcoholism, physical and sexual abuse, and all different sorts of vices that are attributed to the abuse of alcohol. So, the best thing was to stay far away from it.
The reality is that alcohol has a tendency of controlling people and destroying lives and there are serious social issues related to booze. One study reports that those who first used alcohol before age 15 are more than 5 times as likely to report past year alcohol dependence or abuse as adults than persons who first used alcohol at age 21 or older. Alcohol abuse and dependence often begins during childhood and adolescence,” In the US a report found that among the 14 million adults aged 21 or older who were classified as having past year alcohol dependence or abuse, over 13 million (95 percent) had started using alcohol before age 21. The survey found that 74 percent of adults aged 21 or older reported that they had started using alcohol before the current legal drinking age of 21. About 14 percent reported that they had first used alcohol after they had reached age 21. Maybe Canada should consider raising the drinking age?
MADD Canada reports that in 2010, the most recent year for which there is data, impairment-related crashes resulted in an estimated 1,082 fatalities, 63,821 injuries and damage to 210,932 vehicles. There were a total of 183,298 crashes, costing an estimated $20.62 billion.
I was also going to post many other stats regarding the alcohol, but this post is going to be long enough and you can do your own homework. The fact is there are serious social issues related to alcohol. 53 % say that one or more close relative(s) has a drinking problem. The leading cause of death among youth are, alcohol related accidents. Binge drinking starts under the age of 21. Alcohol is a leading contributor to violence and most homicides in our society. Males drink more often, more heavily, and consume more beer and spirits than females. Moreover, the nature of the link between alcohol consumption and violence is more readily a male experience, for example, drinking heavily in bar settings leads to aggression and violence. Alcohol is involved in a high percentage of sex related crimes, sexual assaults, robberies and domestic violence…
Without a question we have a clear problem with alcohol in our culture.
In our church community we have many different people from many different backgrounds. Some believe strongly that Christians should not consume alcohol and for others this is just not an issue.
What do the scriptures have to say regarding these issues. What does the bible say about alcohol? Is it a sin? Can you be a Christian and still drink? What about getting drunk?
Psalm 104 -describes the great things GOD has done and what he makes…but verse 15 is interesting.
Psalm 104 1 Praise the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, you are very great; you are clothed with splendor and majesty.2 He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent ….14 He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for man to cultivate— bringing forth food from the earth: 15 wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread that sustains his heart.
God was the original creator of food from the earth, wine and alcohol, and intended it to be something good and to bring joy into our lives. But just like everything else on this planet we find a way to mess things up. Just like alcohol leads to drunkenness, eating food is a good thing but too much of it is gluttony and that is a bad thing. Just like sexuality expressed within the bonds of marriage is a beautiful thing, a very good thing, but sexuality outside of marriage is a hurtful thing, adultery, fornication and immorality, that is not good.
So, when it comes to Christians and alcohol many times we fail to understand the difference between drinking and drunkenness and we see something that is abused and rather than seeing something is a gift from GOD to be enjoyed within the boundaries (like sexuality) that GOD has set. So, we see people losing control and doing wrong things and we want to stop it so we try to control it and prohibit its use all together.
Are we willing to say anything is beyond redemption? The church is to be a redemptive community. We live not only the experience of redemption (I'm redeemed/being redeemed) but also the works of redemption (I'm redeeming). That's why our mission is both words and works, speaking and doing redemption. And if we are working out our salvation through being redeemed and redeeming, then our response to cultural abuses is not to abstain but to redeem. That not only pushes us to maturity by teaching us how to eat, drink, and have sex to the glory of God (though it won't come easy), but it is also a witness to the world that God redeems.
The pervert throws away the pornography (abuse) and learns to love sex with his wife (redemption).
The glutton hittin’ up the all-you-can eat buffet 3 times a day (abuse) and learns to order a salad with light dressing instead (redemption).
The alcohol abuser stops drinking until drunk (abuse) and learns to stop enjoy a beer or a glass of wine as from God’s bounty (redemption).
As long as we make the issue abstaining, or retracting from culture, we will miss expressing and embodying redemption. And I'm afraid the message we will send is that good things can be perverted beyond redemption.
Martin Luther said:“We must not…reject [or] condemn anything because it is abused. This would result in utter confusion. God has commanded us in Deut. 4 not to lift up our eyes to the sun (and the moon and the stars), etc., that we may not worship them, for they are created to serve all nations. But there are many people who worship the sun and the stars. Therefore we propose to rush in and pull the sun and stars from the skies. No, we had better let it be. Again, wine and women bring many a man to misery and make a fool of him; so we kill all the women and pour out all the wine. Again, gold and silver cause much evil, so we condemn them.
Prohibition did not stop the abuse and then there are others on the other side who don’t see the spiritual side of the issue either. And they allow their ability to drink to be an excuse to over indulge or they have no character or self control and they abuse what GOD has given to be a gift to be enjoyed and GOD is very clear that this is sin.
Ephesians 5:18 You are not to get drunk, drinking is not forbidden, getting drunk is, it is a sin. The first occurrence of drunkenness in the bible found with Noah. There are certain sins that associated with getting drunk. We see it all the time at the bars, night clubs…even house parties where drunkenness occurs and there are one night stands, fights and violence. In Genesis 19 you can study about Lot and his two daughters who get Lot loaded and have sex with their father. We think that people are crazy today…well, 1000’s of years ago alcohol abuse and sin go hand and hand and throughout the bible drunkenness and drunks are talk about in a negative manner.
Throughout scripture, drunkenness is a sin and there are consequences to sin. Besides sexuality, alcohol abuse can affect your finances. Proverb 21:17 He who loves pleasure will become poor; whoever loves wine and oil will never be rich. Alcohol abuse affects our physical health and emotions. Proverbs 23:29
Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaints? Who has needless bruises? (ever see drunks fight?)Who has bloodshot eyes? Those who linger over wine, who go to sample bowls of mixed wine.
Alcohol abuse will take over your life and it will destroy the work of GOD in your life is you are not careful. Isa 5:11 11 Woe to those who rise early in the morning to run after their drinks, who stay up late at night till they are inflamed with wine. 12 They have harps and lyres at their banquets, tambourines and flutes and wine, but they have no regard for the deeds of the LORD, no respect for the work of his hands.
There is a judgment pronounced on those who get up early and drink and those who party into the night. Proverbs 23 says:20 Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, 21 for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags. Booze and work don’t go together. Add to the fact that wino’s are not wearing Armani, are they?
Proverbs 23 continues… 31 Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly! 2 In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper. 3 Your eyes will see strange sights and your mind imagine confusing things. 34 You will be like one sleeping on the high seas, lying on top of the rigging. 5 "They hit me," you will say, "but I'm not hurt! They beat me, but I don't feel it! When will I wake up so I can find another drink?" HOW TRUE this is!
So, as you can tell Scripture contains many warnings regarding the drinking of alcohol. However, a careful study of Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs “drink wine with a merry heart.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:11 encourages “yes, come buy wine and milk…”
What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness. The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects (Proverbs 23:29-35). Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive. Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or might encourage them to sin against their conscience (1 Corinthians 8:9-13).
When we look at the New Testament we see the very first miracle Jesus did was to turn water in wine...not grape juice, flavored water or MiO. Jesus drank wine on occasion (John 2:1-11; Matthew 26:29). In New Testament times, the water was not very clean as a result, people often drank wine because it was far less likely to be contaminated. In 1 Timothy 5:23, Alcohol is prescribed by Paul to Timothy to stop drinking the water (which was probably causing his stomach problems) and instead drink wine. In that day, wine was fermented (containing alcohol). In fact, some doctors today advocate drinking small amounts of red wine for its health benefits, especially for the heart. Consumption of small quantities of alcohol is a matter of Christian freedom. Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is, rather, drunkenness and addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from.
I think that one of the biggest problems when it comes to understanding issues like this is that we misunderstand the scriptures. Why do some teach/believe that it is wrong to drink? Simply, it is a misunderstanding of scripture. Many people believe things about the scriptures that just are not true. It is like saying… “well Gerry, when GOD said wine, he didn’t mean wine.” OK, so when what did GOD mean when he said Hell or salvation or you are healed? What he was saying was “Naw, Just kidding, I didn’t mean that!” We cannot just pick and choose words that we are comfortable with. In Numbers 6 there is a specific term there used for grape juice as well as wine.
In John 2 Jesus turns the water into wine. Some people have told me that “the wine was watered down and diluted, it wasn’t real wine.” Listen, you insult our intelligence when you say that. You do not find that in scripture…as a matter of fact people tend to add things to the bible here….we are warned not to do that…in Revelation 22:18. Also, why would Jesus be accused of being a drunkard according to Matthew 11:18-19? He had to be drinking something here, and is was not watered down…and Jesus was not drunk. Let’s not add anything to scripture that is not there.
Here me clearly! Some people should not drink alcohol! I have seen first hand the devastation that alcohol has on people’s lives. Many people from my own community have horror stories of addiction. Many in our community are addicts, or have grown up with families where alcohol has destroyed their family. They have seen first-hand horrors and dangers associated with it. Many have grown up with the attitude that they never want to associate with it or touch it and that is a perfect response! Some of us are genetically predisposed to alcohol and because of that, we must avoid it. Some of us have grown up with the idea that we don’t even want to touch it and that is ok.
Some of you are thrilled that I am writing this post as it appears to be against alcohol. Sadly legalism is far more rampant in the church than alcoholism. But, imagine if we started to abolish everything that controlled lives? What about coffee or shopping or sports? What about gluttony?
In 2012, 18.4% of Canadians aged 18 and older, roughly 4.7 million adults, were classified as obese. The rate of obesity among men rose from 16.0% in 2003 to 19.0% in 2009, and has remained stable from 2009 to 2012. Among women, the rate rose from 14.5% in 2003 to 16.7% in 2009, and then remained stable from 2009 to 2011. In 2012, the rate of obesity for women increased to 18.0%
Maybe I need to preach against food? If you struggle with weight and you think that I am insensitive I am not…I believe that it can also be a spiritual issue. We talk about the alcohol related deaths in society, well the obesity related death are higher. How come the church does not talk about that? The church is the only place where a glutton can look at a drunkard and somehow feel more righteous than them!
I read this week that 76% of pastors are either overweight or obese! Uh…that’s a sin…just as much as being a drunk! Pastors–the hypocrisy MUST be stopped. How dare we call those who are using alcohol to get to the grave, to repentance and ignore those who are digging their way there with a fork and a spoon!
Proverbs 20 1 Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.
Some are in trouble one step away from a serious problem. Some are alcoholics and can’t stop drinking; it is ruining your life. One day if you keep it up it will take your life, listen, you need to stop. Be honest with yourself, with a trusted friend, GO to AA, talk to your spouse, get some accountability partners. Have your small group pray for you, but do everything you can to stop before it kills you. Listen, not only are you going to destroy yourself but you will dishonor your family and GOD calls it a sin.
1 Corinthians 6:99Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.Yet it Goes on to say 12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything.
For some alcohol has you mastered and you need some help. You are you are not an alcoholic but you mishandle it…you flirt with danger not just for yourself but others as well. Listen to this warning:
Gal 5:13 13You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature[a]; rather, serve one another in love. 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
“Well Gerry, Alcohol is a stumbling block.” What is the true stumbling block is my question?
Romans 14:Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
“Well Gerry, so we cause people to stumble by drinking?” Many people, (especially young adults with newly found freedom away from their parents) teens and young adults, go off to university and college and are exposed to new things and there are going to be more ways and opportunities for them to drink then they ever had in their life. The temptations are overwhelming and mom and dad are not around to help guide. A study done by Harvard reported that almost half of the student body participated in binge drinking.
So, you are a believer and as a believer you realize that you are free in Christ…you are proud of that. And so because you are free you feel that you drink. And so that is what you do, you practice your freedom and you proudly drink in front of people. I want to add that many times people end up drinking in front of those that we should not be doing that with. In every community, there are people who are recovering alcoholics and addicts and they cannot handle it and they are in a battle with their addictions and for you to drink in front of them and proclaim that you are free in Christ to do so makes you nothing more than an arrogant idiot who is self focused and self centered. Told you people were going to get mad.
“Well Gerry, it is my house and I can drink what I want” Sure it is and yes you can, but for you to have people over who struggle with it, for you to drink in front of them, makes you a stumbling block. That is wrong and a sin. People we must be aware of our environment and situations, and if there is someone in the room who struggles, do not participate in front of them. I do not care how much you proclaim to be free in Christ.
Many young adults flaunt their freedom in Christ, unfortunately they parade it like some right, but are causing others to stumble and sin and you should not do it. Be aware of our situations in which we enjoy our freedom in Christ.
True story: a bunch of young adults at a wedding and they all were having a glass of wine, because they are free in Christ to do so…but at that table was someone who is an alcoholic and they knew it! BUT they drank in front of him and so what happened…the alcoholic could not say no and began to participate as well….that is so stupid.
What troubles me as well is some will read this blog and think in a cocky sort of way… “it is not a sin to drink we can have some.” Remember;
Romans 13;1 1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
As followers of Christ we must submit to the governing authorities. If you are drinking and you are under the age of 18 it is wrong. Some of you are saying, “when I get 18 I am going out and getting hammered…” If your only motivation for turning 18 is going to drunk …then GOD help you, you have missed the whole point of this post. Teens and alcohol are never a controlled environment.
Remember people, what I do or do not does not make us righteous…it is Jesus who is the way the truth or life…and makes us righteous, and he also sets us free..
Collosians 2:16-19 - 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
Do not be judged by what you eat or drink…if we focus on issues more than Jesus then we lost our connection with Jesus…The bible doesn’t not forbid a glass of wine with your meal…it says don’t get drunk. Scripture is very clear that it not wrong for a person to drink…it is wrong for a person to get drunk. I know some disagree with that…and that’s fine. There are godly people on both sides of the argument who I greatly admire and respect. If your conscious tells you it is wrong you do not need to do it..hey, that is ok.. but some of you need to quit… you have the liberty to choose in this area but it is quite possible that it has a hold on you. Can you give it up for a month? Not all believers should drink!
I respect and support anyone who feels led or has chosen, or must (addictive issues) abstain from alcohol. Abstain to the glory of God. However, I do not respect any thought or movement that uses extra-biblical preference as a bully pulpit for all to abstain. If you choose to consume alcohol, remember that there are times when you should abstain out of discipline, safety, respect, and deference to others. Do all things with love in mind. I close with this Scripture: “So whether you eat or drink or WHATEVER you do, do ALL for the glory of God.” 1 Corinthians 10:31
Now a NOTE to my fellowship regarding this matter.
I am of the opinion we need to have a discussion with credential holders in each district. Then each district present its findings to the General Executive to come up with a “grass roots” understanding of how we as a fellowship should approach this issue in a biblical and practical way. I believe that we as a fellowship need to have a substance abuse policy and we must deal with what we will do once the legalization of marijuana happens in our country.
Finally, a simple suggestion is when one is applying for credentials that there would be a simple question of one’s view of alcohol consumption. One can choose Abstention or Moderation. If Moderation is chosen, then it is up to the district representatives to follow up personally with each person in that category…I call that accountability!